Painting : How To Paint Boat : Exterior Paint

Exterior Teak Care:

From "Baba Sailboats Maintenance Tips": "Always wash your teak decks across the grain (not with the grain) with a soft sponge to reduce the removal of wood between the wood grain. The more wood that is removed between the grain, the more it will hold water, causing deterioration of the horizontal surface." From "Baba Sailboats Maintenance Tips": "Remove spills on teak by covering the area with dish detergent (Joy or Dawn) as soon as possible after spill. Leave detergent on the spill about an hour or so. Just before it dries, rinse it off." Use talcum powder to soak up grease spots from raw teak. From John Bierrie ... Teak decks require continual maintenance to keep from developing problems. You need to keep a close eye on the caulking on a routine basis, they should be rinsed down with salt water as often as possible, daily is best, twice a day even better. If areas around the edges of the boards or around bungs seem to stay a bit wet longer than the surrounding areas (dark spots), then a problem exists in that area and you need to take care of it, quickly. etc ... etc ... etc ... They need to be washed from time to time to keep the wood doing what it does best, just don't use a scrubbing brush ... They need sanding generally once a year, maybe every other year, depending on how you want them to look, etc ... Luckily, most people learn very quickly that trying to "finish" them is more than just a waste of time, so they let them "age" naturally, but that does not eliminate the required maintenance ... On the other side of the coin, for all that attention / effort / sweating, you will end up doing, you will have the most beautiful decks around ... Just don't walk on them in bare feet in the hot summer sun, unless you just rinsed them down with salt water ... :-) From Colin Foster: Solid teak decks only need oil when you are trying to sell your boat and want to impress the uninitiated. Otherwise they should be allowed to get that grey weathered look that only requires a daily wash with salt water for maintenance. Veneer teak over FG may be another question. From BobG on Cruising World message board: There's a problem with not oiling: When you leave teak decks exposed to the sun for years on end, without oiling them, the natural oils in the teak start to dry out. Eventually, enough oil is lost to cause the wood to shrink and crack. The soft pulp in the grain washes away and you are left with ridges and cracks. There is a limit to how much sanding you can do to smooth out the ruts. Replacing teak that has been worn and sanded too thin is a very costly option. When the teak planks shrink, it opens up gaps in the black caulking between the planks. Fresh water can settle here, and eventually find its way under the planking. You know what follows. You don't have to oil very often, but you shouldn't ignore it altogether. Also avoid washing teak decks with any soap that contains lye. The lye will eat away the soft pulp. Don't use a stiff brush to scrub the teak as it too will destroy the soft pulp. The best way to avoid these problems is to avoid having a boat with teak decks. From Colin Foster: I have found that the white oxidized layer that develops on teak exposed to the sun for long periods protects the wood underneath just like the oxide on exposed aluminum. I don't believe that the natural oils are lost because you can take an old bleached piece of teak and sand off the oxidized layer which is about 1/1000 inch thick and the wood underneath is like new. This is based on personal experience, not a scientific test, and I will retract my position if proved wrong. Adding "teak" oil is only a very temporary change since the surface oil rapidly evaporates if exposed to sun and the natural bleached look returns. Teak is so dense that not only are the natural oils retained but added oil has little chance of penetrating, and if it does, then it is into cavities from which it will just as easily evaporate in the sun. I agree about avoiding all types of chemicals or soaps. If you really have to clean the surface, I use a low pressure, pressure washer with plain water. I like the rough finish produced by the softer wood escaping from between the harder ridges - it is the ultimate non-skid surface - and I think it is a crime to keep sanding the hard ridges down to match the soft, to retain a smooth surface. From Chuck McGohey: Wash your [teak] deck with saltwater and dishwashing liquid ... wood doesn't like fresh water. I leave my deck bare ... oil will only darken the wood and collect dirt ... and dark wood will get too hot to walk on barefoot in the summer. Summarized from "The Voyager's Handbook" by Beth Leonard: Oil on exterior teak turns black. Teak oil doesn't keep in storage. Teak oil can rarely be found/purchased outside USA. Cover exterior teak with 8-10 light coats of varnish, topped by silver-gray paint. From Roy Miles: > We have way too much exterior teak that we don't want to continue trying to maintain during the cruise. ... If you want nice, shiny teak, then sand and prep it, build up LOTS of coats of fresh varnish, then apply one coat of WHITE paint or undercoat over it, protecting the base from ultraviolet degradation. When doing normal maintenance you would sand the first coat of old varnish off, anyway, so there IS NO ADDITIONAL WORK involved. When it's time to "show off", sand the white stuff off with 180 grit, apply a "shine coat" of varnish, and accept the compliments. Then, splash on another coat of white "cover coat" until you feel compelled to flaunt your brightwork again. The white looks like it belongs there (for most boats with basic white trim).

Wood oils/glosses (Armada, Cetol):

Before applying, make sure wood is absolutely dry. From Norm: [Re: adding more coats of Armada every year:] The trick is to keep a sufficient thickness of Armada on to avoid exposing the wood. We put ten coats on initially and this has held up very well for the past three years except where it was rubbed off by some object such as a piling. (we have no rub rail yet) Armada slowly disintegrates in the sun. Adding more is simply a matter of washing with a mild Scotch Brite and water, then brushing on new Armada. We have had no adhesion problems, overcoating has been trouble free. ... The hard part is blending the new with the old to avoid a blotchy appearance. I would guess, in Florida at least, three coats a year would keep up. From David Elmer: ... in my final prep after sanding, I first wiped the teak with regular household bleach (which brought the color out beautifully), let dry in the sun, then prior to the application of the finish itself, did one last wipedown with acetone and fifteen minutes or so later applied the Armada. From John Branch: Varnish is absolutely beautiful but Sikkins Cetol looks great and is far less labor intensive. After 3 initial coats 24 hours apart, one coat per year is all you need. Approx $25/qt. but goes a long way. Practical Sailor gave it a rating of number one for looks and durability a couple of years ago but I'm not sure if its rating has changed. ... From Gary / Koshare: Cetol is really easy to use and lasts very well. On my 72MOI41 I applied five coats of cetol and 5 coats of cetol gloss over a year ago. It still looks like I did it yesterday. Including all the teak in the sun every day. In warm weather you can apply 2-3 coats of cetol a day. I've used cetol on several boats and have never had a problem. One trick, frequently stir the cetol (not gloss) when applying. It won't look orange when you're done. From Randy Stroschein: If you put finish on grey teak it will turn black. You need to get rid of the grey; either sand it or use a teak cleaner (two-part cleaner is best, but is harsh and hard on the teak. It will eat out the soft grain, requiring you to sand a bunch anyway). My opinion is: Cetol, Cetol, Cetol, or if you like, Armada. The new Cetol Light has done away with the orange coloration. Cetol (or Armada) simply can't be beat for overall value: price/performance/prep required/maintenance/quality (ie protection)/looks. From Joseph Berta: Cetol is the way to go. Try ammonia to get the gray out. Easier on the teak than the two-part commercial cleaners and it won't stain the FRP as you drip it everywhere. From Robert Block: We have some really high end teak furniture on the patio which has been discolored by grit grime and dirt. While not a boat situation, nevertheless I will tell you what did the clean up and restore trick for us. On bare teak! Ready? Windex! Wet it down first with water, then then spray with Windex and brush. Rinse off. The effect should be immediate. We follow this with one of the standard teak treatments. [Windex contains ammonia; just buying ammonia probably is cheaper.] Summarized from letter from Scott Steward : Put down 4 coats of Cetol Marine, then 3 coats of Cetol Gloss, allowing 24 hours between coats. No sanding between coats; wipe with mineral spirits to clean before applying next coat. Each year, sand lightly with 220-grit, then apply a fresh coat of Cetol Gloss. From Ken: There is a known chemical incompatibility between CETOL and Boat Life 2-part polysulfide caulk. The CETOL when applied over the caulk eventually breaks it down. You end up with a sticky mess, the caulk "bubbling" out of the seams like tar on an old ship. Heat (hot days) seems to accelerate the problem. Bristol Finish, from Edward Montesi: When I bought my M-383 last October, her Cetoled teak was a mess. About 50% was peeled off and the rest was cracked, brown and dull, a good candidate for a "before-and-after" case study. The previous owner advised me to power-wash off the remainder, which is one of the advantages of Sikems by Cetol. That, right away, raised a red flag. That told me that #1 the adhesion was poor, and #2 power-washing, if not done carefully, with just the right pressure, can scour out the soft teak low, and leave the hard grain high, requiring you to sand the high, hard grain down to the level of the low. Every time you do this with the Cetol product, which appears to be quite often, you wind up with a lot of thin teak, which was my case, and my boat is only 18 years old. I chose the heat gun method of removal as least damaging to the teak and, I must say, the Sikems came off rather easily, which, in my opinion, was another nail in its coffin. The directions say five coats, minimum if you're starting from scratch. Sounds like a lot but, you can re-coat after one hour and you don't have to sand for up to 24 hours so, those coats can go on really fast. For me, it took three days to do six coats. That was in October, when the days are getting pretty short. Hints: #1 If outside, on bare wood, don't apply in the morning before the sun heats up the wood or else the air inside the wood will expand and create a mass of tiny bubbles on the surface. This stops after 3 or 4 coats. It's best to apply after the sun has reached its zenith when the wood starts to cool down and the air inside the wood is contracting. "Double-coating" within two hours of sundown will result in a cloudy surface. #2 Round off all sharp edges as Bristol Finish tends to pull away from sharp corners. Or, you can lay an extra brush stroke or two, let it dry for a couple of seconds and go back and finish applying to the adjacent flat surface. Remember, a generously radiused corner will reflect a wider high-light than a sharp one and be more resistant to wear and nicks. Looks professional too. A hint of how tough this catalyzed, acrylic-urethane is, is in the removal of accidental drips beyond the masking tape. I've tried acetone, paint remover, easy-off, and shaving with a razor-blade. It's very hard to do without damaging the gel-coat. (I'll try heat next.) It's very important to avoid drips or wipe them off immediately. #3 Occasional "fish-eyes" must be sanded and built up to the surrounding level. Its high surface tension must, also, give it its remarkable leveling and high gloss qualities. I told myself, 'If I'm going to put in this much effort, I'm going to use the best looking, most durable product with the least maintenance out there because, at my age and this quantity of teak, I'm going to do this just once.' (I really can't knock Sikems. The condition and the huge amount of teak may have lowered the price of the boat.) #4 Use a foam brush for the final coats, for you can put on a thin, smooth coat on a hot surface without re-stroking back over it. Replace the foam brush every 10 minutes as it swells and loses its stiffness. Someone will come along with techniques that will make it even easier to apply. In conclusion, there is only one Sikems job I've seen that was acceptable and that was on a Sea-Ray with a thin toe rail and a little teak on the anchor/bowsprit. He used mostly the clear coat. Most other jobs I've seen, could have just as well been done with a cheap brown paint. It's only been 8 months but the heavy traffic areas have stood up well. (It's supposed to have 10 times the wear resistance and 100 times the UV resistance of ordinary varnish). I've had to build up a sharp corner and some small fish-eyes but, so far, so good. It's well worth the extra cost, both in time saved in application and in longevity. The true affirmation is the many, rave compliments the boat gets. Looking forward to lots of varnish-free sailing. From Robert Doty : The only negative comment that I've heard about Bristol Finish is that if you use it on an edge, you'll start to get water underneath the Bristol Finish and it will start to separate the teak from the varnish. When this happens to my regular varnish (I use Epifanes), I take the damaged area down to bare teak and lay on new coats. The problem with Bristol Finish is that it's EXTREMELY tough to take off. You can't use a heat gun with it, because the amount of heat you'd have to apply would damage the wood underneath. You can't just scrape it off, either ... because it's super-tough. At least, that's what I've heard. Basically, once you put the stuff on ... there's no easy way to get it off. This can be a major problem if you damage the finish (with water intrusion as described above, or gouge it with an anchor, or whatever). I talked with the president of Bristol Finish at the Miami Boat Show last month (he had a booth). I listened to his pitch. He claims to live on a wooden sailboat in Ft. Lauderdale and has been using his product for 10 years on his boat. He claims that it needs a simple sanding and two coats every year. I told him about the objection that I'd heard about how difficult it is to remove, to which he responded that if you maintain it right, you'll never have to remove it! This might be true, but damage WILL occur to brightwork no matter how it's maintained ... things will happen that are beyond your control. Therefore, you need a solution (in my opinion) that can be easily removed and re-applied when necessary. From Jim Mitchell : We've not used Bristol Finish on our boat, but did help a fellow out last year who used it on his boat. Bristol looks very good, with a rich, deep, fast-building gloss - that's the good news. The bad news is that it was an utter PITA to apply on a vertical surface, because it's own weight would tend to make it sag and drag. On flat surfaces, BF's fast cure and tendency to rapidly form a surface film really did work well and gave a good finish with minimal sanding. But on verticals the uncured product would slough away under the surface film - it was very frustrating to finish a bulkhead, and then watch the BF start running and crazing 15 minutes later. The vertical bulkheads required us to thin to nearly 5:1 and apply many coats to small areas. This process was as much - if not more - work than a more traditional varnish, and I'm not in love with the end result which was neither as deep or as glossy as the other surfaces. I'd use it for small vertical or horizontal/sloping surfaces but would hesitate to do an entire doghouse in it. We're currently using a two-part Canadian varnish 'system' called Tuf Shield, which is working very well and is proving to be as tough and tenacious as the manufacturer claims. We're quite satisfied with the results, although it would have been somewhat cheaper to have simply saturated Nonchalant in good single-malt Scotch ... From Susan Meckley: I tried Tuf-Shield ... what a disaster ... be sure it is what you want cause you'll never get all of it off. From Jim Mitchell: Close to true, Tuf-shield is remarkably tenacious - the only thing worse to remove is a European product called Coelam which will seal almost any deck, but is a total PITA to remove. There is one product which will remove both Tuf-Shield and Coelam without a major heat/scrape/sand session

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Topside

Topside paint types:

• Alkyd (aka "enamel"; oil-based):
  cheap, easy to apply, lasts about a year.


• Modified alkyd (aka "one-part";
  oil-based plus epoxy or polyurethane or silicone):
  more expensive, more durable.


• One-part polyurethane.


• Two-part polyurethane coatings (cures with chemical
  reaction and moisture, instead of drying):
  expensive, tricky to apply, abrasion resistant,
  won't flex, lasts several years. E.g. AwlGrip.


• Epoxy (normally two-part): very durable.


• Vinyl.

Debatable, but:

Dark-colored paint on hull/topsides is bad because:

Heats up interior of boat in warm climates. Dark-colored paint fades faster than light-colored paint (unless waxed often enough ?). Any flaws in the paint job are easier to see with a dark color than with a light color. Heating/cooling cycles cause expansion/contraction, which can loosen hardware/joints, maybe even encourage delamination ? Boat is harder to see at night. Higher temperature can affect the hull's resin. From Douglas Heckrotte: I subscribe to Professional Boatbuilder. They say that the real problem is that the increased heat will push the catalysis of the polyester a bit farther along. This resin shrinks a bit and that's why you get print-through of the fabric. This continued cure occurs even on decades-old boats. Except aesthetic, it's no inherently serious issue. We've read about shrinkage of fillers; lots of the lighter weight fillers carry that admonition against overpainting with dark colors. From Jeff M : I awlgripped my boat last winter and spent a lot of time considering a dark hull. For me, it was a medium dark blue, but not the blue/black flag blue that you see a lot. I talked to a dozen dark hull owners and a half dozen paint shops. One guy clarified the decision for me: He said there is only one reason to paint your boat blue: It looks good. All the other reasons are against it. The paint costs more, it will show dirt and salt more, it is hotter, shows scuff marks more, is more difficult to repair, and will show it's age sooner. Sigh. Maybe next time. I painted it white. From Steve D'Antonio: ... Under the summer sun in Florida, a white hull may only reach 100 F to 110 F. However, under the same conditions, a dark-colored hull can easily reach 180 F. In some fiberglass boats, the higher hull temperature can cause post-curing, in which the resin in your hull cures further, revealing a fiberglass mat pattern that was until then invisible. ...

Paint on fiberglass should be a different shade than the gelcoat, so
when stripping the paint you can see where the paint stops and the
gelcoat starts.



From Hap :

I have used Brightside one-part polyurethane enamel for my dinghy. It is easy to apply and it still shines a year later after being in the Florida sun everyday. I painted my deck and coach roof with Interthane Plus two-part polyurethane. It is more durable than the one-part and longer lasting. To prepare the surface, I washed it down thoroughly with soap and water, sanded it lightly and washed it again. Before applying the paint I wiped the entire area down with acetone. Apply the paint with a fine textured 3 inch foam roller approved for use with polyurethane paints. Tape off everything with 3M blue tape. Two of us worked together while applying the paint. It is important to keep a wet edge all the time and never try to go back over an area that has started to dry. Leave retouches to the next coat. Several light coats are better than a couple of heavy ones. As you roll an area have your helper (if you have one) follow behind with a good paint brush tipping the wet area to remove fine bubbles left by the roller. You will want to use a flattening agent in the paint to dull the finish as left to itself two-part poly is so glossy you have to wear a welders mask to look at it. :-) It is important to start early in the day when there is no threat of rain. It takes about 10 hours to cure and if moisture sets on it the finish will be pitted and very dull. I had this happen with one coat and I had to sand the whole thing to remove the pits ... it was the pits. A heavy dew will do the same thing to the finish so plan accordingly. When it is all done, however, it looks very good for a do it yourself job and it cleans and wears very well. It should last several years without further attention.

From Dave Gibson :

I'm with the Interlux one-part polyurethane guys ... I've painted (or repainted) two boats with it. A very good product for the do-it-yourselfer. Rather than roll-and-tip, you can also roll the paint on yourself, maybe a three foot wide area on the hull, and then go over it again with a very, very light touch on your foam roller to flatten out the bubbles. I also found that thinning the paint a little helps it spread easier.

From Burry :

I have used both Brightsides and Easypoxy and as far as ease of application found them similar. The flow of these paints depend on temp of surface, air and paint and also the relative humidity. You want to adjust the thinner to allow easy flow so any brush strokes blend into a smooth finish and yet not so much thinner that it promotes running. As well, make sure you do a good job sanding and smoothing the substrate as any imperfections will show through. I used a smooth surface foam roller and a top quality china bristle brush with the roll and tip method. There are also two-part paints available for the do it yourselfer. The advantage to these are hardness and durability. The disadvantage is cost, and difficulty in application. If you do decide on a two-part suggest you look at hiring someone to spray the finish coats for you. Check out the Interlux website as they have a pretty good guide to painting with most of the tips and suggestions being fairly generical and applicable to most boat paints.

About painting topsides, from Pierce :

Do it yourself ... This is one of the areas of highest cost savings that you will experience. I have painted 1 topside in the past, and just finished my deck. It came out real good. Just followed the directions and was very careful. If you screw up, just keep painting, sand off the screw up and put on another coat! Keep coating until you are happy with the results. Key tip: Put on VERY thin coats and more of them. Spread the paint out. My first coat was too thick (got drips and sags) and the sanding time before the next coat left me with a healthy respect for LOTS OF THIN COATS! After the first coat, I got better and better and the last coat looked great!

About painting topsides, from Dave Gibson:

I painted two boats with Interlux Brightsides and it came out pretty good, if I do say so myself. The key to getting good results with Brightsides is to thin the paint to match the weather. If the paint dries too quickly, you won't get the smooth finish you want, and you'll get orange peel. I also invented my own technique for applying it. I don't use the "roll and tip" method. I roll it on with a good quality foam roller, covering about a three foot section of the hull. I then go back to the previous three feet with the damp roller, which is just starting to set up, and roll out all the bubbles. The finish comes out pretty smooth. Cost for a previously painted 33' boat was about $300. Cost for an unpainted 26' boat was about $500, due to all the primers and prep work.

About painting deck, from Colin Foster :

Go with the two-part polyurethane. You will be disappointed with the life of a one-part paint. The cost of the paint is small compared to the preparation and labor of painting so go with the best. Especially on a horizontal surface, the one-part will start to go chalky in 6 months. Chipping or flaking will be more a function of the surface under the paint rather than the paint itself but again, the two-part paint is more tenacious at sticking together and retaining a uniform surface. All the commercial boats go to the trouble of using two-part paint - not particularily for appearance, but for durability. A good two-part polyurethane can give at least two years service in the direct sun on the deck and with touch-ups could last up to 5 years. You can apply it with a roller and it goes on very quickly. If you are adding an anti-skid, it is VERY important to stir it thoroughly and consistently before pouring paint into the tray AND before loading the roller each time. I have found it difficult to get an even distribution of the anti-skid grain throughout the paint job, although it is more obvious to the one who painted it than the casual observer.

About painting deck, from Logan S/V Scotty Ann:

We use paint made for patios and concrete driveways ourselves. Works fine if you give it a good prep first and it is cheap enough to redo when it gets grungy. Our decks are in daily use rather than occasional use - so we expect it to need a repaint when anchor chain rust and all the other good stuff starts to make it look bad. Since maintenance is a daily fact of life it just goes on the list and gets done.

About painting deck, and paint longevity,
from Al Hatch :

I've used Brightside on a number of boats including my own. I usually get 4+ years out of the walkways, longer on cabinsides (glass boat), though if I want it looking crisp I do the cabins every 2-3 years. Awlgrip will last a bit longer but is considerably more expensive with a lot more prep work involved. In my experience if you have sanded and preped properly Brightside will just fade, slow enough you may not notice how much until you repaint one day. I have only seen it peel and chip where the substrate wasn't properly preped and cleaned before applying. If the gloss is too much for you then add flattening agent to get a semi-gloss or even a flat. Personally the gloss is easier to keep clean.

From John / Truelove:

Suggest you research the differences between Awlgrip, Awlgrip 2000, and "car paint". We just went thru this, but decided to re-gelcoat the deck instead. This due to the fact that any paint will last only apprx. 5 years in the tropics, whereas gelcoat is good for twice that and more. Also, (the original) Awlgrip, if needing repair, cannot be matched. If you're doing topsides, use the Awlgrip 2000, and get a list of approved applicators from the manufacturer. Another tip: don't use Oyster White. It has much less solids and doesn't last anywhere near as long as other whites. When you consider this and the fact that most every boat manufacturer uses Awlgrip Oyster White because they get a better price, you'll know that Awlgrip, therefore, sells much more paint for re-coat than they would otherwise.

About painting deck, from PaulK on Cruising World message board:

I tested Brightsides on a part of our foredeck and found it was easy to apply. It did not stand up well to use, however, lasting less than a month or so before starting to look shabby and worn. Not wanting to repaint every year, (and re-tape, and re-mask, and re-sand) I went with International's 2-part stuff. They have a very helpful 800 number and were very patient with my many queries. The deck has stood up to three years of heavy use and still looks good, though there are a couple of spots that get chafed by lines and are starting to wear through. The cormorants are a much bigger problem than the deck paint.

Painting topsides, from JimJ :

Be careful! If you are anything of a perfectionist, don't bother! I've seen lots of do-it-yourself jobs that look good in the correct light, and I don't doubt that the people here have excellent looking paint jobs that they did themselves. But I tried it on our boat and I was very disappointed. (I read all the instructions, practiced my brush technique ... ) I ended up taking the boat to a pro to have awlgrip sprayed on - doing the prepwork and labor myself saved lots of money and it was totally worth it in the end. It is VERY hard to make a brushed (or roll and tipped) paint job look like anything but a brushed (or roll and tipped) paint job. Most boats I've seen look great from any normal distance - but that wasn't good enough for me. If I had to do it all over again, I would have been happy with our gel coat for a few more years. Good luck - and practice on something that doesn't mean as much to you as your boat might!

About painting topsides, again from Dave Gibson :

Painting is an easy do-it-yourself job. I used Interlux one-part polyurethane, and I've painted both my Pearson 26 and my Mistral. The new Interlux isn't as good as the stuff made 10 years ago, and I needed to thin it. Proper preparation is very important, but I found that the technique used to apply the paint even more so. The results of just brushing on Interlux is not good. The brush marks don't flow out good enough. I also didn't like the results of roll-and-tip for the same reason. I found a technique that worked well for me on both boats. I used a good quality foam roller and thinned the paint a bit. I then rolled on about a five or six foot wide section of hull, followed by a second section. I then went back over the first section with a damp roller (no paint on it) and flattened out all the bubbles. This gives a pretty smooth finish with no brush strokes and no orange peel effect. I like the one-part polyurethane a lot. It's easy to apply, and easy to touch up. I don't wax. I find that glass cleaner does a great job of cleaning the paint and waxing isn't necessary. On the downside, it's pretty soft, and not as resistant to scratches as the two-part epoxy, but the ease of maintenance is a fair trade off.

Dialog I had with Gary Elder about grinding and painting fiberglass top of my pilothouse:

> Just want to check with you on this (I've also > bought the WEST SYSTEM manual and have to read it): > 1- I've scraped off big chunks and sanded. Many experts think you should wipe with acetone BEFORE sanding. It has to do with some epoxies having a wax in the resin that comes to the surface during the curing process. I always do it that way, and have never had a WEST SYSTEM project fail. If the wax is not removed before sanding, it just gets smeared around. > 2- Fill in big divots with epoxy with filler added. Wipe the whole thing with acetone and clean rags just before applying epoxy/filler. > 3- Sand to get everything fair. > 4- Do a "saturation" coat of epoxy. > 5- Sand lightly again. Very lightly. > 6- Do a "layering" coat of epoxy. > 7- Paint (with what ?). If you are going to do this alone, I would recommend either Brightside or Easypoxy. Both are easy to use right out of the can, are very forgiving, and will give you about five years of good service. You may have to thin about 10% in this climate [south Florida]. If you want to get fancy, and try a two-part polyurethane paint, I would recommend Sterling. It's similar to AwlGrip, but easier to use, but for best results it's a two person job. One person to roll it on, and another to 'tip it' with a good brush. I would avoid the two-part paints for now. > Is this right ? Very close. In this climate, I would use the West 206 (slow) hardener. You will probably get about a 30 minute pot life. The 205 (fast) hardener will probably start to kick about 10 minutes after you mix it. I'm assuming that you know about not putting the liquid resin/hardener mix in a 'tall' container. Always use a container that gives you a large surface area relative to the depth. Also, considering the surface area of this project, I would use a roller to apply the resin, followed by a cheap paint brush to smooth it a little. The brush will be junk after the first time you get it wet with epoxy. Finally, once the epoxy starts to 'kick' there is no stopping it - kinda like an orgasm - so work fast, but do a rehearsal first, just to make sure you have all the tools, etc that you might want. > For 2 coats on approx 12x14 pilothouse top, seems that > I'll use a gallon of the WEST SYSTEM epoxy. You might want to phone the WEST SYSTEM people ... I'm wondering if such a large surface should have a layer of glass in the lay-up to help keep the epoxy from cracking.

Tips gleaned from "Topside Refinishing" article by Don Casey :

Use two-part polyurethane, rolled on. You want one or two coats of primer, then two top coats. Beam plus twice the length, times average freeboard, gives approximation of topside surface area. Need primer, paint, reducer (thinner), dewax solvent, filler to repair scratches, glazing putty to repair small flaws, top-quality badger-hair brush for tipping, Fine Line (3M #218) masking tape, MEK. Steps: Wash hull with mixture of laundry detergent and bleach. Degrease hull with MEK. Wipe hull with dewax solvent to remove any silicone. If needed, remove vinyl graphics with Easy-Off oven cleaner [or use a heat gun and peel off], remove a painted-on name with a chemical stripper. Sand the hull. Hand-sand any special areas first, then power sand. Hose away sanding dust, and let dry. Fill any flaws, let filler dry, then sand and hose again. Wipe hull with dewax solvent again. Test gelcoat for porosity (brush thin coat of enamel on test area, look for any pinholes). If porous, must prime. (If any "fish eyes", apply dewax solvent again.) All repairs must be primed anyway. If previously painted, test old paint for adhesion to gelcoat (try to rip some off with Scotch tape). Also test for compatibility by seeing if reducer (thinner) softens it. If either test fails, must strip off the old paint. Tape off borders. On all painting days, must have low humidity and moderate temperature. Also need calm day, and want to avoid direct sunlight. Paint with primer. Let primer cure, remove masking tape, then sand. Fill blemishes with glazing putty, let dry, then sand and maybe reprime. Tape off borders. Wipe with reducer (thinner). Mix paint, add thinner, test on a piece of Formica to see if thinning is right (brush strokes should fade out, paint shouldn't sag). Paint. Best if done by two people, one rolling and other tipping. Consider doing just transom first, to get technique right. Want to paint as fast as possible. Don't pause, even for a minute. Let first coat cure overnight. Wet-sand with 320-grit to correct surface flaws. Hose and then sponge-scrub to remove sanding scum, and let dry. Wipe with reducer (thinner). Apply second coat. Let second coat cure. Not necessary to apply third coat, unless some significant problem with second coat.

From Russ Buckingham :

Re: two-part paint that can be used on decks: There are several two-part finishes out there. The one we are using on our boat is an industrial product called -- aliphatic urethane. It's a 4 to 1 mix, flows out incredibly nicely. High chemical resistance, high gloss, long retention. They say no waxing for 10 years!!! Definitely a top-notch finish, without the price of "Marine" coatings. Find a paint dealer that does industrial coatings. Another tidbit: use a pin roller for following roller application. It breaks the tiny air bubbles. Nice finish.

From PaulK :

Re: Preparing a deck for painting: Do it inside a building - weather outdoors doubled the time it took me. Another suggestion - mask everything, everywhere, all over. I thought I'd be "careful" around the winches, etc, and am still trying to remove little spots, smudges and drips four years later. I spent the better part of a day masking, and got tired of it. Would have been better off spending two days masking. Also hope you're using two-part poly, since you don't want to have to do it again any time soon. (Ours is now starting to wear in spots after 4 years.) Other single polyurethane paints we tested on our actual deck and on our Blue Jay deck simply didn't stand up for more than a season. For nonskid, we used less than the max amount suggested by Interlux, and it is not as aggressive as we'd like. Take your time and do it right. It looks great when you're done.

One data point: a family of four sanded and painted hull and deck of 44-footer with LP:

Took 6 weeks, 600 hours of labor, hired professional to spray for $400,
total cost $2500, boat looks like new.



From sailormike01 :

I paint 4 to 5 boats a year and the best advice I can give is go with an acrylic urethane. Polyurethane paints (i.e. Awl-grip) are excellent high-quality paints that require almost no maintenance, but they cannot be sanded and buffed without leaving a "halo" that is duller than the rest of the boat. So if you end up with too much orange peel or a couple of nasty runs, you would be better of re-spraying the whole boat which gets real expensive. It takes lots of practice to get it right the first time with polyurethane. Acrylic urethane (i.e. Awl-craft 2000 or imron) is much more forgiving, it can be sanded and buffed without losing gloss, therefore much easier to repair scratches later on. But it does require a little maintenance (buff and wax every 1-2 years). You can also get rid of runs and orange peel by sanding with 1200 grit up to 2000 wet then buffing with a high quality compound to get that high gloss wet look it sounds like you are looking for.

From slosurfin :

Another issue with Polyurethanes is getting the right mix of thinner etc. It's not an easy do-it-yourself product. I have been using 4" wide foam rollers, they're a dense, white foam, they work great and lay down a nice finish, you'll see a little stipple up close but even that is minimal. Prep, prep and more prep are as important as anything, the paint layer is soooo thin that prep is probably the most important part of the job. Use a sanding primer, a couple coats sanding between goes a long way as well.

From sailormike01 :

Acrylics are not good products for rolling. Even with the slowest solvents they still flash (dry) too fast and won't flow, or level out. For roller apps, the poly is the better way to go, and with the right mix of solvent and a little practice you can get a pretty nice finish. I am a big fan of Awl-grip (poly) and Awl-craft 2000 (acrylic). You can get an application guide through west marine, it is very specific and easy to understand. Awl-grip also has a great tech support dept.

From Tom Young :

Awlgrip removal ... a fate worse than death. In comparison, I have fond memories of pulling a diesel and replacing it in one of my boats, and I had a broken arm at the time. When I get bogged down with springtime projects that need to be done, I pull up a few pictures of removing Awlgrip a few years ago from my hull. That was the worst project I have ever had to do on a boat. [Message had a picture that looked like doing a "bottom peel" job.]

From topside paint test article :

Best brand of paint varies by color of the paint. Some colors of Rust-Oleum got good ratings. Boatyards might charge $150 per foot for topside painting.

From letter from Brian Cleverly :

Some topside paints are incompatible with some caulks and sealants. Interlux Toplac over West Marine Multi-Caulk (poly-ether), 3M 101 (polysulfide), or Boatlife Life-Caulk had problems. The paint softened the caulk, and the paint cured very slowly and never reached normal hardness. Toplac over 5200 (polyurethane) or Boatlife Life-Seal (polyurethane) didn't have problems.

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